MSRC4 DSM Plugin SLOW...?

[Ares]

I don't know if this is normal behavior or not, but I am connecting to my girlfriend's computer via RC20.2 (both sides), and everything was very speedy. I usually used Auto, which usually picked 64 colors. Well I installed the MSRC4 DSM plugin and now it takes like 3 minutes to load her screen, and everything is painfully slow. Quite frankly, I can use my grandpa's computer over a modem faster than I can use my girlfriend's computer on DSL now. What gives? Is this typical, or what? Just wondering...


-Ares

[Ipsec]

I think this is a good question... and not sure as to where it should go - either bugs for RC20.. or DSM plugin lol!

I will have to upgrade my systems because I have 19.6 been meaning to upgrade to 20.2... but I use the DSM plugin and of course its normal.

What version of the DSM plugin do you use...


Any other moderators - Wann help place this one in its rightful home?

[UltraSam]

Strange.

I use it daily (RC20.1 + MSRC4DSM 1.1.5) over DSL connection and the speed is just fine. Not noticeably slower than without the DSM plugin.

Even over LAN, the DSM encrypting doesn't make the updates really slower...

Maybe you are using plugin 1.1.6 ?
Not yet tested it.

Have you tried Ultra encoding or something ? :

Please check the server scaling params values in the "C:\Documents and Settings\your user\Local Settings\Temp\options.vnc" file

they should be:

scale_num=100
scale_den=100

and NOT:

scale_num=1
scale_den=1
(if you have these bad values you get slow updates even over a LAN...)

[Ares]

Ohh oops, I knew I'd leave something out. I use the latest - Version 116. I've tried both the registry and the no-reg version, though I figured that wouldn't have any effect. Even at 8 bit color depth, it was too slow to be usable. I had to wait 30 seconds for each folder in the Start Menu to show before I could get to the Default Settings in the VNC Server folder (all animations are disabled). The icon wasn't showing because of how I restarted the server. My girlfriend is 100 miles away from my college, and not home at the moment, so I wrote a simple batch file that did a "net stop 'vnc server'" then a "net start 'vnc server'". I tested it on my own machine before running it on hers, and it seemed to enable the DSM Plugin just as I thought. I ran it, and tried to reconnect. Took about 60 seconds to get in. Usually it takes 5-10 seconds before the computer is usable. Screen updates took up to 3 minutes at one point. I disabled the DSM Plugin as soon as I could, but that took about 7 minutes just because I had to wait on the different levels of the Start Menu to appear. As soon as I unchecked it and hit Apply, I was booted out. I reconnected, and it took like 7 seconds. Everything was zippy once again.


-Ares

[Ares]

Strange.

I use it daily (RC20.1 + MSRC4DSM 1.1.5) over DSL connection and the speed is just fine. Not noticeably slower than without the DSM plugin.

Even over LAN, the DSM encrypting doesn't make the updates really slower...

Maybe you are using plugin 1.1.6 ?
Not yet tested it.

Have you tried Ultra encoding or something ? :

Please check the server scaling params values in the "C:\Documents and Settings\your user\Local Settings\Temp\options.vnc" file

they should be:

scale_num=100
scale_den=100

and NOT:

scale_num=1
scale_den=1
(if you have these bad values you get slow updates even over a LAN...)

I use RC20.2 and MSRC4 v1.1.6. My college LAN has an OC3 connection to the outside world, and I typically get around 800KiB/sec transfers to the outside world. My girlfriend's computer is on Verizon DSL, and I usually get about 130 kbit/s according to the Viewer status. Upon initiating the DSM Plugin, it went to around 10-20 kbit/s. It was unusable. Took forever to disable it (read my earlier reply to IPSec).

My settings are:
scale_num=100
scale_den=100

I have never used the DSM Plugin before. I have only used it on RC20.2, and have only used v1.1.6 of the plugin.


Hope this helps...

-Ares

[Ares]

I am currently downloading the old MSRC4 v1.1.5 to test it instead of v1.1.6. I will post my results here in a bit.


-Aers

[Ares]

Ugh... I deleted the v1.1.6 plugin, unzipped the v1.1.5 plugin, created a keyfile with the Viewer, remoted into my girlfriend's computer, went to the file transfer - and the darn thing said "File Transfer permission denied: Server isn't UltraVNC or incompatible FileTransfer version."

I checked, we have identical versions. Just a few hours ago, this is exactly how I got the keyfile to her. It worked fine then. When I installed this RC20.2, I removed both versions completely from both of our computers, and did a fresh install (just to be on the safe side, as I had many bugs with the RC19 line).

Any ideas??


-Ares

[Ares]

It didn't help... v1.1.5 slowed me down to about 30-40 kbit/s. Of course, v1.1.5 had me around 10-20 kbit/s, but considering I get 130 kbit/s without encryption, this is still unacceptable. =\

Worse, as I was disabling the DSM Plugin, winvnc.exe crashed. I saw the "Send / Don't Send" crash dialog box, and then the Viewer closed. I can't get back in. Guess this problem will have to wait until my girlfriend can come home and reboot, eh?


-Ares

[Ares]

Not only did it crash winvnc.exe, but I just saw her screennames go offline. Guess it bluescreened on top of that. Sheesh lol


-Ares

[Ares]

Well, she came home, and she said it had auto-rebooted (as I have it set to do) and it had "Windows has recovered from a serious error" on the screen. So yeah, it bluescreened just by me unchecking the DSM Plugin (v1.1.5).

I don't know if it will be helpful or not, but I uploaded the minidump from her crash: http://mysite.verizon.net/vze859dw/misc ... 705-01.dmp [64kb].

Ps. now that she's rebooted, the file transfer works fine. I don't think I'm going to try encryption again for awhile, though... lol


-Ares

[redge]

performance test
delete options.vnc before test
[topic=2181][/topic]

and BSOD issue
[topic=2238][/topic]

[Ares]

performance test
delete options.vnc before test
[topic=2181][/topic]

and BSOD issue
[topic=2238][/topic]

I re-uploaded the MSRC4 Plugin v1.1.6 to my girlfriend's computer (since the filetransfer is now working again). I checked the "use DSM Plugin" and made sure it was pointing to my rc4.key file. I hit OK. I ran my stop/start batch file, which consists of:

@echo off
net stop "VNC Server"
net start "VNC Server"

This of course booted me out. I made sure vncviewer wasn't running, and deleted my options.vnc, and connected using Auto. It took 3 minutes to load the screen (as it was doing before). I am getting 17-21 kbit/s, using ZRLE, Cache, and what appears to be 8-bit color. I usually get 130 kbit/s, ZRLE, Cache, and 64 colors.

So that didn't work...

Checked the event viewer - other than the recent bluescreen, there's nothing out of the ordinary. Definately no bad sectors. I ran SpinRite on that disk a few weeks ago anyway, and it said the drive was in perfect condition.

Now I'm unchecking the DSM Plugin - let's hope it doesn't bluescreen again. It's taking forever at 13 kbit/s. Wish my girlfriend hadn't gone out for Wendy's or I'd have her do it lol ;)

--- 10 minutes later ---

Okay, I had to switch to B&W just to get anything done. Still took about 2 minutes for any change to be reflected on the screen (opening the options, unchecking the plugin, hitting OK, restarting the server). *Whew* thought I'd never get done with that...

So that's not it either...


Thanks,
-Ares

[Ares]

Scratch that, when I hit OK to disable the plugin, it crashed and bluescreened once more. It has *never* given me problems like this before, and once she reboots and the plugin is disabled, all is fine.


-Ares

[redge]

--ouf of topic ---
there Daemon-tools 3.46 or 3.47 on host computer ?
maybe can happen BSOD with vnc video driver or bad interaction with winvnc and winxp !

because, i just uninstalled dt347, and my computer have less issue with applications on startup of windows !
----------------

[Ares]

--ouf of topic ---
there Daemon-tools 3.46 or 3.47 on host computer ?
maybe can happen BSOD with vnc video driver or bad interaction with winvnc and winxp !

because, i just uninstalled dt347, and my computer have less issue with applications on startup of windows ! :)
----------------

Nope... thought she might have Alcohol 120%, but I never gave it to her. I can't think of anything that would mess up the driver like this. Especially since it *only* messes up when encryption is enabled.

Here's a HiJackThis log: http://mysite.verizon.net/vze859dw/misc/hijackthis.txt

I keep her computer pretty clean, and she's hardly one to install spyware. She's clean according to Microsoft AntiSpyware and Spybot. She has that stupid Yahoo! toolbar, that's about it. She doesn't use IE though, she uses Firefox. She's running Symantec AntiVirus Corporate v9, so she's clean on viruses as well.

Any other ideas? And thanks for the ones so far =)


-Ares

[redge]

i see she have Synaptic driver ! It mean notebook computer !?
She use WLAN or/and LAN.
with WLAN:
encryption use to much cpu time with a lot of traffic on a low cost router/Access Point !
my Ultravnc viewer crash with dsmplugin and encrypted WLAN traffic WPA-PSK TKIP !
but without encryption of WLAN, and use dsmplugin, i don't have crash of viewer !
strange, you have crash of server with BSOD with dsmplugin active.

[Guest]

i see she have Synaptic driver ! It mean notebook computer !?
She use WLAN or/and LAN.
with WLAN:
encryption use to much cpu time with a lot of traffic on a low cost router/Access Point !
my Ultravnc viewer crash with dsmplugin and encrypted WLAN traffic WPA-PSK TKIP !
but without encryption of WLAN, and use dsmplugin, i don't have crash of viewer !
strange, you have crash of server with BSOD with dsmplugin active.

Yes, it's a Compaq notebook (I hate Compaq...) running 802.11b connecting to a Linksys router. I was able to get the task manager up while it was going verrrrrry slow with the encryption turn on, and UltraVNC was using a mere 10% of the CPU. I figured it would be 100%, but it wasn't. CPU usage isn't the issue. It might be oversaturating the bandwidth of the router - but if that's all it takes, why does UltraVNC without encryption work just fine? Not only does it work just fine, but I can remote in with VERY good response times, around 80 kbit/s - with BitTorrent running of all things (I get 130 kbit/s otherwise). I can't do that with any other VNC (kudos to you guys for that!). But with nothing else running in the background, the second I check that encryption, everything comes to a halt, at 17-20 kbit/s. I didn't think encryption actually increased the data size; or if it does, certainly not by that much.

The WLAN *is* encrypted though. That's the only way I can get that buggy POS known as Windows XP SP2 to connect to my Linksys router. The router has the most recent firmware, too. Without the WLAN being encrypted, XP will boot her out of it every 5 minutes. *sigh*

Any further suggestions? I'll try disabling WLAN encryption next week, while I'm home for spring break.


-Ares

[Rudi De Vos]

Using encryption, data is the same, but packets are smaller.
You can not encrypt a 32k block..but need to use smaller packets.

Possible the router have to do the same.
If packet sizes of both encryptions differ you get a terrible fragmentation.

(sample: no real numbers)
4,5K->vnc(use 2k encryption) 2x2k+0,5k->router(use 1,5k encryption->1,5k+0,5k+1,5k+0,5+0,5K
4,5K->router->1,5k+1,5k+1,5k

Each packet need to send a ACK.....
If one site of the router is ethernet, the router also need to buffer and recompose the bigger packets.
WiFi also loose a packets, the number increase a lot with heavy traffic...they need to be resend.

[Ares]

Using encryption, data is the same, but packets are smaller.
You can not encrypt a 32k block..but need to use smaller packets.

Possible the router have to do the same.
If packet sizes of both encryptions differ you get a terrible fragmentation.

(sample: no real numbers)
4,5K->vnc(use 2k encryption) 2x2k+0,5k->router(use 1,5k encryption->1,5k+0,5k+1,5k+0,5+0,5K
4,5K->router->1,5k+1,5k+1,5k

Each packet need to send a ACK.....
If one site of the router is ethernet, the router also need to buffer and recompose the bigger packets.
WiFi also loose a packets, the number increase a lot with heavy traffic...they need to be resend.

Ah, I see... that sounds like it could very well be the cause of my problem. I'll check it out next week, and tell you guys how it went =)


Thanks again!
-Ares

[TechFan]

My computer keeps setting
scale_num=1
scale_den=1

how to I make sure I am setting it to 100 before I test?

[redge]

delete options.vnc

or/and
vncviewer ... save connection info as Ctrl+Alt+F5
and you have always same settings as you saved.

[scovel]

I use Ultra + Plugin Encryption + WIFI Encryption all the time from a Windows 2003 Server laptop to a WinXP Desktop. Sometimes over the Internet too... (Laptop-> Plugin-> WIFI-> Internet-> Firewall-> Desktop) and it doesn't seem to be any slower than a typical connection.

Dlink WIFI using WPA-PSK 128 Bit. Ultra 20-2. MSRC4 116.

Is the laptop the viewer or the server? What's the processor on the server? What's the CPU utilization on the server. Are you trying to view full-screen video or someting?

Sean

[scovel]

Could you get the two machines on a wired LAN for a few min. and test to make sure its not machine related? Take the wireless out of the loop, 1 less thing to blame...or maybe it will become obvious that it was indeed the wireless that was causing the problem!

Sean

[Ares]

I use Ultra + Plugin Encryption + WIFI Encryption all the time from a Windows 2003 Server laptop to a WinXP Desktop. Sometimes over the Internet too... (Laptop-> Plugin-> WIFI-> Internet-> Firewall-> Desktop) and it doesn't seem to be any slower than a typical connection.

Dlink WIFI using WPA-PSK 128 Bit. Ultra 20-2. MSRC4 116.

Is the laptop the viewer or the server? What's the processor on the server? What's the CPU utilization on the server. Are you trying to view full-screen video or someting? ;-)

Sean

It's actually two laptops, and it's only slow with the encryption plugin. She was using around 10% CPU during this huge slowdown. Both of our laptops are +1Ghz machines. We both have plenty of RAM. I was merely trying to work with folder in Explorer, with a blank desktop and a few icons. That's it. Normally it's *very* fast. If I disabled the encryption plugin it would crash, but before and after using the encryption plugin, it would go from the 10-20kbit/s to 130kbit/s. It was just one static window, and her desktop with icons. Her Start Menu would take about 3 minutes for each level to appear (usually it's 1-2 seconds).


-Ares

[Ares]

Could you get the two machines on a wired LAN for a few min. and test to make sure its not machine related? Take the wireless out of the loop, 1 less thing to blame...or maybe it will become obvious that it was indeed the wireless that was causing the problem!

Sean

I'll be testing this sometime this week, I just got back home on spring break - we haven't put much thought into her computer since I've been in haha ;) But yes, I do intend to test this on a LAN here in the near future =)


-Ares

[cheaha]

Is there a resolution to this thread? I am trying to figure out if using encryption, does indeed slow down the connection noticably. I can't tell myself, so what's the definitive answer, is there problem with the latest build of the plugin, or not? If there is a problem what are the conditions, and is there a fix?

On this note, I have been debating if encryption is really even that necessary. I mean what are we transfering that really needs to be encrypted? How important is it, and is it worth a small performace hit to encrypt? Opinions?

Thanks.

[scovel]

I've been using the plugin daily with no slow-downs. No one else has reported any symptoms. I can only conclude that it is related to the particular setup involved, either software or wireless routers.

I can't reproduce it, and I haven't seen any logs. In fact, the only support Emails I'm getting are asking where RC19.5 is!

As far as I am concerned this is a non-issue. If I can get evidence to the contrary, I'll gladly look into it.

Sean

[UltraSam]

I confirm.

I'm using it daily over DSL connections and I can't see any noticeable slowdown.

[redge]

it is possible dsmplugin (MSRC4 or AES) use optimized code SSE instructions of Pentium III and SSE2 instructions for Pentium IV ? or there not needed or not exist for dsmplugin ?


host:
RC20.5 service + video hook driver
CPU 1x Pentium III-650MHz
RAM 4x 512MB PC100 SDRAM
GFX 1x Nvidia GeForce2 MX 32MB 1280x1024@32bits
LAN 100Mbit/s <--> 100Mbit/s same subnet

[scovel]

MSRC4 uses the MS Crypto API. You'll have to ask Bill G. if its optimized.

AESPlugin is not optimized at this point. (BETA)

But that's not the problem here. His CPU utilization was low during the slow-downs. Its got to be a network problem.

It'd be nice if he would report back what's going on with his setup these days....

Sean